Example of not using an outcomes approach
Example of not using an outcomes approach
"Hi are you Deb?" "Yeah, why?" "My name's Dawn and I'm from Social Services, can I come in?"
"What do you want?" "Well it'd be much easier if I came in and I could explain
to you rather than us doing this on the doorstep". "Well you're gonna have to tell me what
you want first aren't you". "We've had a report from the police with
regards some child protection concerns that we have,
so it would really be much easier if I came inside". "What if I don't want you to come
inside?" "Well the concerns are with regards to
your and your husband's drinking, and the lack of supervision for your daughter
Megan, so it would really would be much easier if I came inside, okay. I'm going
to have to insist that I come inside really". "You better come in then". "Okay, thank you".
"Okay Debs so I'll go through some of the child protection concerns that were in the police
report. So there were concerns that yourself and your husband Peter had
been drinking through the day and that that had led to the kids leaving the
house following an argument between yourself and your husband. And then do you want
to tell me a bit about where the kids went then?". "Not really". "Well it'd be helpful if
I got your perspective of things". "Well I think you probably know what happened
then if the police reported, they went out, Llyr went off on his own and Megan
went to John's house". "Yeah it says here that John is a known sex offender and that
you're aware of that. And one of the concerns we've got is that you are
allowing Megan to go to his house. We don't feel that that's appropriate".
"Well he's not sex offending with Megan is he, you know, we know him".
"Okay there were concerns that that wouldn't keep Megan safe, okay". "You
don't know John do you, so you know" . "There are also concerns mentioned in the
police report here with regards Llyr being out on the estate without any
supervision and...". "Well the thing was I didn't know she was out, so there's a big
difference there isn't there". "Okay, why didn't you know that your daughter
was out?". "Because she went out without asking...so it wasn't
until I went to look for her - for her to have tea that I realised that she
wasn't there and then I phoned the police. So you know, after we looked for her I
phoned the police". "There are also concerns that when you were talking with
the police you mentioned the financial issues that drinking
is causing to yourself...". "Sorry, what did you say?". "There were concerns that the...you'd raised
concerns to the police about the financial impact of drinking in the house, is that right?".
"No". "Okay well that's what the police report says here". "Well they're lying". "Okay...and
that when the police attended that they found that there were holes in the door
because it was a result of...". "What's that got to do with anything?"
"Well the concern is the kids are living in a house where
there's holes in the door, so who...". "But it's not holes in the front door, it's only in the
thing because, in an inner door because Llyr kicked off one night, he did that".
"Bedroom door and the bathroom door, so why did he kick off?" "What's it got to do
with anything? Kids kick off". "Not to that extent, that's quite significant...". "Fine take him
in to care then...". "We're not going to do that". "...because I've had enough of it anyway, to
be perfectly honest with you, and I can do without this". "Debs we're not
going to be taking him into care, that's not the best outcome...". "you've just come to tell me off
then because he's punched a hole through the door in his bedroom have you?"
"No what I've come to do is, to present to you a contract of expectations
which is a contract that lays out the kind of things we'd expect yourself
and Peter to go doing as parents to make sure that the kids are kept safe, okay".
"How can you do that when you don't even know what's going on?" "Well..."
"All you've got is a 'police report' 'police report' that you keep on about, which is wrong anyway,
but you're not even taking any notice of that...". "Why'd you feel that it's wrong?" "Because it is
wrong". "So the report I've got here was produced by the police officer who
attended that evening, and incidents were captured on the body-cam, so there will
be an account of what they saw. And this is just saying that it's an account of that
okay". "Yeah and I will be on the body-cam as well because I was looking for Megan".
"Okay, let's get back to the matter in hand, so we're going to need you to work
with us here okay Debs". "But you're not listening to me. How can I work
with you when you're not listening to me?" "Let me just explain the kind of things
that we'd be expecting you to do under the contract of expectations, okay. So
because of the concerns of alcohol use between yourself and Peter and the
domestic incidents that result from that...". "You don't drink yourself then?" "That's not
the issue here Debs okay...". "I don't care, you don't know what the
issue is in my house either". "Debs we need to get back to the matter in hand
okay, you're going to need to work with us...". "I thought that was part of the matter in hand".
"Let me read through the different things we're going to be asking you and Peter...".
"Fine carry on because you're obviously not listening to me anyway". "So because of the
domestic concern, domestic instance between yourself and Peter, the first
item here is- 'Peter not to reside at the home of an evening' so he can come here...".
"What?" "...during the daytime, but of an evening because that's the time when it
seems you're drinking at the moment and that's leading to arguments...". "Well that'll be
because Peter's in work in the day because that's what people normally do
in the day, and then they come home in the evening." "Okay so often...". "You're saying
that he can't actually come home?". "Yes, at the moment
we're expecting that he'll find somewhere else to stay while you're
working with us". "And you think that's okay?" "It would reduce the incidences of domestic violence...". "So if I
came to you and said 'oh by the way your husband can't come home to your house
anymore after work...'". "Debs we're going off-track at the
moment, you'll need to work with us on this okay. So where can Peter go to stay?
He'll need to find somewhere else..." "Here, is this house".
"No he'll need to find somewhere else, other than here...". "Why? Where's he
supposed to go the YMCA? Or sleep in a box in the street is he?" "What about friends, family,
where do his parents...". "Tent in the garden maybe?" "Where are his parents? Do they live locally?" "No they
don't. One of them is dead anyway, you should
know that". "Okay the information we've got on the system is that there's a Vaughn who
lives locally? Nain Ceri and taid Vaughn?" "Yeah that's my
mum and dad". "Yeah? Can he go and stay with them?" "Well no". "Okay you'll need to sort
that as a family, you'll need to identify somewhere as a family that he can go...".
"Why? He's not bad dad...". "Debs let me run through the whole contract of
expectations, what we're expecting you to do okay, cause you are going to need to
comply with this, if not...". "Says who?" "Well if not, I'll need to discuss the matter with my
manager to consider taking the matter to Child Protection
and case conference okay". "So you are going to take my kids away from me". "Let me finish
running through the contract of expectations okay. So the second incident
is- 'Peter and Debs not to go drinking of an evening'...". "You can't tell us that we can't go
drinking, or we can't have a drink...". "If the alcohol use is leading to yourself
and Peter arguing, and the kids not being supervised appropriately...". "But everybody argues...".
"Let me just finish. So one of the other things that we'd like you to do is for
yourself and Peter to go on a budgeting course, and for you to go attending
one of the local parenting courses that we'll provide for you okay". "Why should I go on a parenting
course? I look after my kids, they've got a roof over their head, they get fed,
they're loved. What else is there to parenting?" "One of the other...let me just finish
going through the contract expectations. One of the other things that you'll have
to do is to make sure that Megan doesn't go to John's house, and that
Llyr isn't on the estate unsupervised". "So she can't have a dad, she can't go to
her uncle's house, what else? Is she allowed to go to school?" "I've explained to you...". "Am I
allowed to give her a kiss?" "I've explained to you what we expect from you, and what
we're going to do is we're going to monitor this to make sure that the kids are safe
and to make sure that you're complying with this". "And how are you going to monitor it?
You're going to have the police outside the door every night, are you, making sure that Peter doesn't
come in?" "No what we'll do is, we have an emergency duty team, out-of-hours team,
we'll ask them to call round some evenings and weekends to go checking to make sure
that you are complying." "I can't believe this".
"Okay. I'll leave you a copy of this. Can I ask you to sign at the bottom there?"
"No. I'm not signing it". "Well regardless of whether you sign it, this is what we're going to
be expecting of you, and we're going to be monitoring your compliance with this
okay". "You can't make me sign it and I want you to get out of my house".
"Okay, Debs let me just explain to you how we're going to be monitoring it, so we're
going to be asking...I'll be coming here...". "You've got all your facts wrong,
so go away, get your facts right, and then come back and tell me. Get out of my house". "I'm
going to be coming here to monitor you complying with this...". "Well I won't open the
door to you next time". "I'm also going to ask that the out-of-hours social services
team and the emergency duty team come here of an evening, of a weekend to see
whether or not Peter is here...". "So basically all you're gonna do is be
policing us then, no help or anything, just policing? Is that what you're saying?" "We need
to make sure that you're keeping the kids safe". "I am keeping my kids safe".
"Okay I'm going to take this back to the office, I'm going to discuss the
situation with my manager. I will leave a copy with you, okay, but we will be
expecting you to comply with this". "Whatever".