Understanding an outcomes approach in social care

Learn how the outcomes approach focuses on improving well-being by understanding what matters to people and developing personal outcomes.

What are personal outcomes?

Personal outcomes describe what a person wants to achieve. These are realistic goals that the person receiving care and support, and their care worker or carer can work towards. They are usually based around supporting the individual’s wellbeing.

Outcomes will vary from person to person and child to child because they’re about what matters to that individual.

Some examples of personal outcomes are:

“I want to get to school on time like the other kids and have a clean uniform”
“To be able to go back home, build my confidence and live on my own like I did before”
“I want to see my brother, speak to him and spend time with him and not lose touch now we don’t live together”
“I want to go to swimming classes, but I need to know my husband will be okay and that someone will be there for him when I’m not.”

Personal outcomes should be:

driven by the person’s aspirations – they are unique to the person and their life
realistic – it can’t be the same as it was, so how can I adapt, manage, remain hopeful and feel in control?
achievable – what strengths have I got to deal with the future? What resources do I have within myself, my family, friends and community?
meaningful – addressing the person’s real concerns and dilemmas
evolving and changing – accepting that nothing stays the same.

Personal outcomes are not services or resources.

Some example of services and resources are:

A person might attend a parenting group
have a walk-in shower fitted
receive a home care service

These are the things the person does or is provided with (the inputs) to help the person to achieve their outcomes, but they are not an outcome in themselves.

Try this exercise to see if you can identify the personal outcome statements.

Personal outcomes statements
PDF 89KB

This booklet gives a summary of how to use personal outcomes:

Personal outcomes booklet
PDF 600KB

Watch this video where trainer Rhoda Emlyn-Jones explains the background and principles of using an outcomes focused approach:

00:00

So the opportunity that this act gives us is an opportunity to do things

00:06

differently and it's something that everyone welcomes you know all

00:12

the social workers we're working with, all the local authorities, although they have

00:16

to dig deep to make this change they welcome the opportunity to do it because

00:21

people do feel that they've got overly curtailed in their practice by the

00:27

processes that have limited the engagement with human beings. Over the

00:33

last 18 months and as I say my background is in social work across a wide

00:38

range- child protection, adult services, mental health, older persons a wide range

00:43

of provision and but the last two years I've been working alongside Social Care

00:48

Wales on their improvement agenda helping local authorities think about

00:52

not just what does the Act say but if we manage to change in line with the act

00:57

what does our work look like? We've got to have a sense not only of

01:01

the vision but also how we affect the work so we've worked with every local

01:06

authority adults and children services across Wales and they are working

01:10

together to try and bring about a change so we'll be very interested to hear if

01:14

you've noticed a different quality in the care plans you're getting a

01:18

different kind of conversation, maybe not, but if you have it'd be good to hear. One

01:25

of the things as I already said is that government, Heads of Service, gradually

01:33

politicians at every level recognising that we have become overly prescriptive

01:39

in our style and approach. You know an assessment document now for a social worker

01:46

has become so comprehensive that they end up having the wrong kind of

01:51

conversation with people right from the very beginning asking them all kinds of

01:54

information that isn't relevant to the person they're talking to isn't helpful

01:58

in building trust in the system. So thinking about all of that is an

02:07

important part of the shift, you know if I was if I was waiting at home

02:12

for someone to come out and assess me whatever the situation I was in that

02:16

would make me nervous if I was going to be assessed I could fail and if I failed

02:22

the assessment what would that mean to me if they didn't give me a service or

02:26

they did something to me I didn't want, so right from the very beginning

02:29

we've created a kind of discomfort and many of our service users go through one

02:34

assessment after another don't they to try and get to a service so so much of

02:41

that has to be changed and many authorities are trying not to use the

02:44

word now when they're talking to their public and that's that's probably

02:49

something that's close to your hearts as well. The other thing about those

02:54

conversations is they've been very driven by trying to ascertain whether

02:59

someone hits a criteria or a threshold or is allowed a service, now what that

03:06

has done over time is ensure that people have very negative conversations all the

03:10

conversations have been about the deficits and what people can't do so

03:14

that the social worker could go back to the base and crash this case through the

03:18

thresholds of the panel to ensure they get a service. What that leaves in terms

03:24

of our service user is a feeling of just having one conversation after another

03:29

about what they can't do, it's a demoralizing process so when we start

03:34

talking to local authorities about bringing back a more strengths-based

03:37

approach lots of things have to change- how they capture the information,

03:43

what they think is important, how they make decisions about allocation of

03:48

provision and everything has to change, so they're digging deep and

03:53

trying to ensure that the system is complying with the spirit of the act at

03:58

at every level. So what they're trying to move to is ensuring that every worker

04:05

every skilled worker across Wales has the opportunity to engage in those

04:09

empowering conversations with people, uniting all of us in the fact that we're

04:16

dealing with people who are facing challenging situations and that we have

04:20

to have sensitive conversations with people to enable them to start to make

04:23

sense of what going on for them in their lives so

04:27

collaborative conversations across the piece is what we're trying to encourage.

04:33

So you may be noticing a change in the care plans you may be noticing and

04:38

starting to see more outcome focused care plans coming through to you. You may

04:43

be noticing the more strengths based assessment so you're getting a bigger

04:47

picture of a person - their life, their history, what they can do as well as what

04:53

they can't do so your starting point is much more balanced and more open that a

04:59

feeling like we're in it together that we can make a collaborative

05:04

communication around the service user to the outcome that means flexible

05:07

conversations it doesn't mean receiving a care plan with minimal instructions

05:13

about tasks and then a review of that six months down the line checking

05:18

whether the service is still happening. Reviews should be changing in their

05:22

feel, it shouldn't be about reviewing the service it should be about reviewing

05:26

the person and their hopes and aspirations, a real opportunity for

05:31

providers to say things are different than they were when we met this person

05:36

and we need to be taking that on board so that kind of listening conversation

05:41

regularly communicating together and working together a shared understanding

05:46

of what all our work is leading to for the service user. So what the Act asks of

05:53

us, asks of workers is to ascertain and have regard to people's views and wishes.

06:02

We don't find out what people's views and wishes are unless we

06:08

have sensitive conversations where we're listening hard to what's going on.

06:12

One of the things that's captured people around the country is this concept of

06:17

what matters - has everybody heard that phrase "what matters to people"? And in

06:24

some areas that's been interpreted very literally so into their early

06:29

conversations they put a question "what matters to you?". The whole concept of what

06:35

matters needs a principle that underpins our work not

06:39

a question that we ask people if I (sorry Andrew, knocking my mic) if I was walking

06:45

down the street today and someone stopped me and asked me what matters to

06:47

me I'd struggle to answer that question so unless I'm in a sensitively guided

06:54

conversation I won't get to be able to articulate that or even think about what

06:59

things are going on that matter to me but we've had some interpretations where

07:04

social workers have had referrals from hospitals saying oh I've had the what

07:07

matters conversation it's a walk-in shower, end of conversation. So we need to

07:13

get to a process a much more flexible understanding of what trying to get to

07:21

the important things for people actually means and that means thinking about how

07:25

people ascertain views, wishes and feelings and from that ascertaining of

07:33

those feelings we can get to people beginning to articulate what an outcome

07:37

would be similarly if I said "what's your outcome?" wouldn't even know what anybody

07:43

meant so they that emerges out of our conversations with people

Watch this video where social worker Tina describes the values behind using an outcomes focused approach:

00:00

So what do we mean by personal outcomes? Research shows us that people are experts in their

00:05

own lives, they are best placed to tell us what's important to them and what gives them

00:11

a sense of well-being. But they often need help to do this, particularly when families

00:16

are in crisis, and this is generally when we need intervention from us. Personal outcomes

00:23

means acknowledging people's strengths and working with the person to an agreed plan

00:27

to help them to do the things that matter to them. Others can contribute to this plan,

00:34

including the family, carers, community members and professionals. It's about implementing

00:41

core values, actively listening, allowing people to tell their story in their way,

00:48

without judgement, treating people with respect and being reliable, suspending judgement,

00:54

and asking open questions, taking a person-centred approach which allows people to know that

01:01

we are listening and that we understand. Asking exploratory questions such as What concerns

01:06

you most? What do you notice when things are a bit better? Tell me a bit more about what's

01:13

happening. And what could be happening to make you or others less anxious? Helping people

01:20

to identify their own strengths, skills, motivation to make change, their concerns, and their

01:26

aspirations. The approach limits natural defensiveness and it avoids arguments and confrontation.

01:36

It allows people to think about what needs to happen, where they are now and where they

01:41

want or need to be. The approach advises against dismissive terms such as "I know best", "I'm

01:48

the decision maker", "You must/have to do as I say".

01:52

It allows people to take ownership of their own life circumstances,

01:57

with professionals moving away from the role of fixer and rescuer towards one of facilitator.

02:04

Research tells us that poorly understood problems can result in wrong advice being given,

02:11

and wrong choices being made. The aim is to use interlinked

02:15

skills, understanding the person's situation holistically.

02:20

So why change the way we work?

02:22

As mentioned, recent legislation Wales has people and communities at its heart. The Social

02:27

Services and Well-being and The Future Generations Act emphasises co-production and involvement,

02:34

prevention, early intervention and the role of communities. There is a growing need to

02:39

support and enhance community resilience as austerity continues to hit public services

02:45

and we need to find sustainable ways to support people. Evidence undertaken by Social Care

02:52

Wales has shown that culture needs to change within both communities and public services

02:57

in order for us to be able to work together to overcome a culture of dependency. This

03:04

starts with genuine partnership-working between families, professionals and communities in

03:10

order to make a difference. Building trust and confidence, building resilience in people's

03:19

lives and giving them the confidence that things can change. The focus cannot just be

03:24

limited to health and social care, there has to be a shared vision with the private and

03:30

voluntary organisations as well as education. Evidence from practice tells us how we do

03:37

it can be more important that what we do. I recently read a story written by a young

03:44

care leaver, Jenny Maloy, in Community Care Magazine. Jenny talks about how the kindness

03:50

of Social Workers and carers helped her overcome childhood trauma and build her resilience.

03:56

She writes "Social Workers and carers are in the honoured position to create a space

04:01

for us to learn what we, as precious children, should receive as acts of kindness". There

04:07

were so many acts of kindness that she received, far too many to mention, and that in itself

04:13

is an act of kindness. With the complicated life of working with vulnerable children,

04:19

the simple things can be overlooked. Resilience is built in many ways, and feeling special

04:25

by receiving kindness is one of them. She adds "The conversation often pops into my

04:30

head when I felt the loss of those important professionals. The loss was no different to

04:37

losing a relative. The cross was no easier to bare. The losses stay with you forever,

04:43

and they in part, shape you as an adult. But in my case, through the many acts of kindness

04:54

I received, they didn't break me". So how much does this cost? How much does the approach

05:03

of taking an outcomes focused practice cost? Nothing, yes. Working in a non-judgmental

05:15

way, treating people with respect, being kind, actively listening, being available and reliable,

05:24

showing compassion and being empathetic, putting the person in the centre, asking them what

05:30

matters to them and exploring their personal outcomes. Zero cost, no charge.

Why is an outcomes approach important?

By focusing on what matters most to people, we can improve their health and well-being. Working with people in this way is called an outcomes approach because this is how we support people to understand and achieve their personal outcomes.

The aim of an outcomes approach is to make sure that people who receive care and support and their family or unpaid carers are supported to live the best lives possible, building on their own strengths and capabilities. It also requires organisations to focus their resources on the impact they have, as well as the activities they carry out.

The Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 requires us to focus on people’s well-being and put them at the centre of their care and support planning.

An outcomes-based approach is based on these principles:

People are experts in their own lives
They are best placed to tell you what’s important to them and what gives them a sense of well-being, but they may need help to do this
People want to do the things that matter most to them, in their own way
People’s strengths are important and need to be acknowledged
We start by identifying what the person wants to achieve, and then thinking through how to achieve that outcome and agree a plan to help them to do this
The person’s family, carers and local community can also contribute to this plan
Meaningful conversations are central to understanding a person’s outcomes
A personal outcome is the picture the person paints of what it is they want to achieve.

A sense of well-being comes from things like:

relationships
feeling loved
being respected
having a sense of purpose
making a useful contribution
the little things...that make life feel worthwhile.

This is the same principle for children, young people and adults, whether they receive care and support or not.

Listen to a parent explain how a practitioner taking an outcomes focused approach helped her to change the way she interacted with her children:

00:00

I was mortified

00:02

I'm gonna lose my kids

00:05

People telling me, You're not good enough

00:08

You haven't got the family support behind you

00:10

and they are going to take your kids away

00:12

because you're on your own

00:16

So I was initially worried

00:19

I was reluctant to listen

00:22

Because I had those dark voices in my head

00:24

I would lose my kids

00:26

My ex...he would destroy everything

00:29

I struggled, I was in a really low income

00:33

My son's attendance was 63%

00:35

It was terrible

00:36

He was late all the time

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It wasn't he didn't like school because he loved school.

00:41

Because he was in that habit of

00:42

pick and choosing

00:45

Because

00:46

there was a lack of encouragement to make him want to go

00:50

there was a lot of fighting with him then

00:54

Due to lack of order and discipline,

00:57

Everything was chaos in his life

1:00

At the time

1: 2

I'll be honest, I think I was a selfish person

01:04

It was all me, me, me

01:07

Not realizing that it was the children

01:10

All I wanted to do was escape

01:13

I wanted to escape the life I was in

01:16

I was watching my children suffer

01:19

My kids, they deserved better

01:23

They deserved more than me
01:26

I thought I couldn't give them what they want

01:30

Love of family

01:32

So at the time, it was me, it was me

01:35

When Tina came over,

01:37

he asked me what you really want

01:39

what are the outcomes you want for yourself

01:42

It really made me realize,

01:44

I didn't want my kids to be in the position they were in

01:46

I didn't want to be in the position I was in

01:48

I was looking at my children

1:51

and I could see my childhood in them
01:53

They were isolated, unsure

1:57

They were not beaten,

2:00

They were mentally beaten,

2: 3

They could not speak out

02:05

I was that scared little scary girl

2: 9

where I could not speak as a child

02:11

That realization ...

02:14

I did not want my children to be mentally destroyed

02:17

They need a full week at school

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But also that one-on-one with their parents

02:23

That's what school did for me
02:26

They opened that door

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About that one-to-one service with my son, so I can understand it,

02:33

Seeing through a child's eyes

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See it through his own eyes

02:37

In the one to one sessions

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They taught me how to talk to my son

02:45

And get him to open up

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Schools should be able to do that

02:50

Coad Frank acknowledged that

02:53

children need to work with peers and parents

2:59 pm

Basically, what I think is

3: 2

If everyone who is at a Conference meeting

03:07

ready to listen to each other

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... and listening to the parents

03:13

they can understand the distress for the parents
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Because you all understood me

03:21

because you took the time to listen and look

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Anyone can bark orders at you

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You can be a robot all your life

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But it does not fill that darkness and emptiness inside you,

03:36

Until someone asks you

03:39

What do you want for your future,

03:41

for the future of your children

03:44

You step out of that phase of being a robot

03:47

You become a person

03:50

You are recognized as a human being not a robot

03:55

When you are recognized as a person

04:01

Things are getting a little brighter
04:05

Because I'm not an invisible shadow

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I'm not a door mat

04:13

I'm a person

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I have a voice and an opinion

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and someone is interested in my opinion

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that brightens my day

04:24

It's everything ...

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The way they eat is different,

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My son wouldn't eat any fruit or vegetables,

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He eats every vegetable that is put before him now

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He used to have night terrors,

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45 minutes screaming and crying
04:43

Fits in her sleep

04:46

Wetting himself,

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He has not done so for over a year

4:54 pm

I forgot what it was like to have my son in complete fear,

4:58 pm

the thought of it scares me now

05:06

But it doesn't do that anymore

05:10

He is polite,

05:13

He is kind and caring to his sister

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My daughter,

05:17

she's very peculiar, she has character, she has charisma,

05:24

They both are eager to learn

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they are not afraid,

05:29

they are very confident children now

05:32

I could not have done it alone.

In this video, Mr Britton and his worker reveal how they worked together in an outcomes-focused way to find out what mattered to him.

My name is Mr David Stanbury Britton, and this is my story.

In my younger days, I was a local councillor. I did this for over forty years. People look at me now and just see this (Mr Britton nodded his head towards his contorted hands) – but I’m a lot more than that.

I was devastated when I found out I had Parkinson’s disease. It was even harder when my son was diagnosed. Life isn’t fair sometimes. You’ve just got to make the most of it. When my wife died, I was on my own. My son’s illness was worse than mine, and I was in the dark. Cassie was my wife’s two eyes. That little cat is a symbol of hope; she’s more than just an animal.

After her passing, people tried to help me – but they kept saying “David, you need to think of your health and get rid of the cat”. But why couldn’t they understand, Cassie isn’t an animal, she’s my only friend. She’s my daily reminder of my wife. I wanted to make new friends, and do more things, but there’s no way I was moving out of that bungalow, if Cassie couldn’t come too. No one ‘got’ that. I was in and out of hospital all the time, and I was worried who would look after Cassie when I wasn’t there. The worry made me more unwell, and no one could understand why I didn’t want treatment. Truth is - I just wanted to be with my cat. But why was that so difficult? “You need to go to hospital, David.” “That bloody cat is making a mess everywhere, why don’t you get it re-homed?” “David you’ll be much safer in a care home, wouldn’t you feel better with more people around?” Isn’t it funny that people think they can tell you what you need.

Things are so much better now. I go to coffee mornings three times a week, and film nights every Thursday. I don’t just have friends, I have a best friend. I go to his flat every week for a ‘tot’ of whiskey. When I go to hospital, the carers still come to feed Cassie. One of them even plays with her so she doesn’t get bored. This means I can get better, without worrying.

I’m even part of the committee in the complex. My background of being a local councillor means that I know the area really well, and I’m good at organising things. I’ve got my voice back, and it’s a good feeling.

00:12

so mr. B was actually my first ever case

00:15

as a qualified social worker initially

00:19

we had a referral from various agencies

00:22

raised in different concerns

00:24

Varian in nature concerns around his

00:28

deteriorating health his accommodation

00:31

he was described as quite unkempt a

00:34

poorly man he was struggling to look

00:37

after his cat and the pressure was on

00:41

really to say that he needed alternative

00:44

common accommodation and people felt

00:46

that he needed to be in a care home as

00:49

opposed to his own home the first time I

00:52

met mr. B he looked quite deflated he

00:56

didn't really speak much he looked quite

01:00

sad if I'm honest he had quite a long

01:03

beard he had long hey he initially was

01:07

quite reluctant to engage with me he had

01:10

a lot of support in the past from

01:12

various services when I sat down I

01:16

simply said how are you you simple

01:19

language make it about the person

01:23

strength based practice is key really in

01:26

achieving positive outcomes for people

01:28

just just having that simple

01:30

conversation how were you what's going

01:33

on tell me what's going on

01:34

how do you see things at the moment what

01:37

does a good life look like to you tell

01:39

me a bit about yourself just to start

01:42

that conversation so even even though I

01:44

had all of the information from previous

01:47

agencies and I was mindful of that

01:49

information you need to start with the

01:52

positives you need to start with what

01:54

the person feels what the person wants

01:57

and he simply told me that he loved his

02:01

cat he didn't care about his health he

02:04

was refused in hospital admissions he

02:07

didn't like where he lived but he didn't

02:09

want to go anywhere else because he

02:10

didn't want to leave the cat and soon

02:12

then you could see that his whole life

02:15

revolved around Cathy the cat and when

02:19

you focused on what mattered to him and

02:22

he focused on the cat

02:23

everything else around him almost solved

02:26

itself because he felt better his

02:28

well-being was improving and I think at

02:31

that point in time he was very much

02:34

saying to me

02:35

isn't it funny laughs that people can

02:37

fit people people think that they can

02:39

say to you what you need why are people

02:42

telling me what I need why isn't anybody

02:45

asking me what I want or how I see

02:48

things or how I feel about things and I

02:51

think when you make that shift it's it

02:54

just creates positive outcomes for

02:55

people and that's what it's all about

02:57

really isn't it it's about empowerment

02:59

if we go in and we have that

03:01

preconceived idea of what people need

03:03

that won't achieve positive outcomes and

03:07

that's actually disempowering people

03:08

what we need to be doing is going in and

03:10

having simple conversations with people

03:12

about what matters to them but he was a

03:15

counsellor for 40 years very intelligent

03:18

man very very dry sense of humor

03:21

had full mental capacity regarding the

03:24

risks of the situation that he was in

03:27

and obviously we have to respect

03:28

people's rights to make and why his

03:30

decisions in those circumstances and I

03:33

think giving him all the information

03:34

that he needed and the advice and the

03:37

advocacy if you like allowed him that

03:39

and to think outside of the box and

03:42

think actually there's other options

03:43

here what else can I do

03:45

where else can I go and giving him those

03:48

options of moving with the cat just

03:51

opened new possibilities for him and I

03:53

think now that he's achieved the outcome

03:55

of seeking alternative accommodation

03:58

with the cat that's now opened up new

04:02

outcomes SWE's he's evolved in he's his

04:05

life is improving in a way that he

04:08

wouldn't have seen at the beginning of

04:10

my involvement it's been a long journey

04:13

it wasn't so easy in the beginning I

04:16

think the biggest barrier for me was the

04:18

cat simply because the cat absolutely

04:21

hated me so that was quite difficult in

04:24

the beginning home visits were tricky

04:26

the cat didn't like anybody being around

04:29

him especially the paramedics

04:33

but especially me as well so I did have

04:35

many scratches and scrapes from the cat

04:38

at the time I think moving him was was

04:41

quite tricky as well with the cat

04:44

David was no issue whatsoever but

04:47

transporting the cat in my car was was

04:50

quite tricky and I think David did say

04:53

I've it's quite strange I've never seen

04:55

a social worker we're in heaven gloves

04:57

before so that was a new one for both of

05:00

us good the time we have come a long way

05:04

and I think the biggest part of this is

05:07

that trust in relationship it's just

05:09

about spending time with people getting

05:11

to know them and if you go in thinking

05:14

you know what they need it just creates

05:17

that barrier straightaway they don't

05:19

want to engage with you and with David I

05:21

think investing that time in him in the

05:23

beginning just created a really positive

05:26

relationship

05:35

you

This story highlights Andy’s journey which has been a difficult and long one at times but shows the positivity of collaborative working. Hear from Andy and the team of professionals who worked with him to achieve his outcomes.

How to find out what matters to people and agree their personal outcomes

An outcomes approach prioritises good conversations with people about what matters to them over gathering data for organisational purposes. The focus on personal outcomes provides opportunities for the person to reflect on their life, reduce the assumptions made by others and improve understanding between everyone involved.

The most valuable conversations are the ones where people feel really listened to. In being listened to, people often start to make sense of their own situation as they can put time and thought into it.

A good way to remember the core skills for having a good conversation with people is the word OARS:

Open ended questions
Affirm – notice strengths
Listen Reflectively
Summarise in an empowering way.

focus on people’s strengths is a key part of an outcomes-focused approach, but this means asking the right kind of questions and letting the conversation flow:

engage with people and help them explore their hopes and fears before putting a plan in place
explore the pro and cons – help people think and talk
help people build on their strengths and those of their family and community
help people notice their achievements and anticipate threats.

Remember to:

listen carefully and show empathy
explore concerns and aspirations
expect natural defensiveness
support the person’s sense of their own abilities
avoid arguments and confrontation.

Here is a resource that gives examples of strengths-based questions you can use at different points of the conversation. These hints and tips can help you build a good conversation, avoid traps and support people to focus on what is strong, rather than what is wrong.

Hints and tips for having good conversations and understanding what matters to people
PDF 92KB

The following videos show a worker having a conversation with a parent. This is their first conversation – it has been prompted by a referral received by social services.

The first video shows the worker focusing on paperwork and risk. This isn’t using an outcomes approach.

00:21

"Hi are you Deb?" "Yeah, why?" "My name's Dawn and I'm from Social Services, can I come in?"

00:28

"What do you want?" "Well it'd be much easier if I came in and I could explain

00:32

to you rather than us doing this on the doorstep". "Well you're gonna have to tell me what

00:35

you want first aren't you". "We've had a report from the police with

00:38

regards some child protection concerns that we have,

00:41

so it would really be much easier if I came inside". "What if I don't want you to come

00:45

inside?" "Well the concerns are with regards to

00:48

your and your husband's drinking, and the lack of supervision for your daughter

00:51

Megan, so it would really would be much easier if I came inside, okay. I'm going

00:57

to have to insist that I come inside really". "You better come in then". "Okay, thank you".

01:10

"Okay Debs so I'll go through some of the child protection concerns that were in the police

01:14

report. So there were concerns that yourself and your husband Peter had

01:18

been drinking through the day and that that had led to the kids leaving the

01:23

house following an argument between yourself and your husband. And then do you want

01:27

to tell me a bit about where the kids went then?". "Not really". "Well it'd be helpful if

01:32

I got your perspective of things". "Well I think you probably know what happened

01:38

then if the police reported, they went out, Llyr went off on his own and Megan

01:46

went to John's house". "Yeah it says here that John is a known sex offender and that

01:53

you're aware of that. And one of the concerns we've got is that you are

01:57

allowing Megan to go to his house. We don't feel that that's appropriate".

02:01

"Well he's not sex offending with Megan is he, you know, we know him".

02:06

"Okay there were concerns that that wouldn't keep Megan safe, okay". "You

02:11

don't know John do you, so you know" . "There are also concerns mentioned in the

02:15

police report here with regards Llyr being out on the estate without any

02:21

supervision and...". "Well the thing was I didn't know she was out, so there's a big

02:25

difference there isn't there". "Okay, why didn't you know that your daughter

02:30

was out?". "Because she went out without asking...so it wasn't

02:34

until I went to look for her - for her to have tea that I realised that she

02:38

wasn't there and then I phoned the police. So you know, after we looked for her I

02:42

phoned the police". "There are also concerns that when you were talking with

02:46

the police you mentioned the financial issues that drinking

02:50

is causing to yourself...". "Sorry, what did you say?". "There were concerns that the...you'd raised

02:58

concerns to the police about the financial impact of drinking in the house, is that right?".

03:03

"No". "Okay well that's what the police report says here". "Well they're lying". "Okay...and

03:09

that when the police attended that they found that there were holes in the door

03:12

because it was a result of...". "What's that got to do with anything?"

03:15

"Well the concern is the kids are living in a house where

03:19

there's holes in the door, so who...". "But it's not holes in the front door, it's only in the

03:22

thing because, in an inner door because Llyr kicked off one night, he did that".

03:26

"Bedroom door and the bathroom door, so why did he kick off?" "What's it got to do

03:34

with anything? Kids kick off". "Not to that extent, that's quite significant...". "Fine take him

03:39

in to care then...". "We're not going to do that". "...because I've had enough of it anyway, to

03:42

be perfectly honest with you, and I can do without this". "Debs we're not

03:45

going to be taking him into care, that's not the best outcome...". "you've just come to tell me off

03:49

then because he's punched a hole through the door in his bedroom have you?"

03:52

"No what I've come to do is, to present to you a contract of expectations

03:56

which is a contract that lays out the kind of things we'd expect yourself

04:02

and Peter to go doing as parents to make sure that the kids are kept safe, okay".

04:05

"How can you do that when you don't even know what's going on?" "Well..."

04:09

"All you've got is a 'police report' 'police report' that you keep on about, which is wrong anyway,

04:13

but you're not even taking any notice of that...". "Why'd you feel that it's wrong?" "Because it is

04:18

wrong". "So the report I've got here was produced by the police officer who

04:22

attended that evening, and incidents were captured on the body-cam, so there will

04:27

be an account of what they saw. And this is just saying that it's an account of that

04:32

okay". "Yeah and I will be on the body-cam as well because I was looking for Megan".

04:37

"Okay, let's get back to the matter in hand, so we're going to need you to work

04:41

with us here okay Debs". "But you're not listening to me. How can I work

04:46

with you when you're not listening to me?" "Let me just explain the kind of things

04:50

that we'd be expecting you to do under the contract of expectations, okay. So

04:55

because of the concerns of alcohol use between yourself and Peter and the

04:59

domestic incidents that result from that...". "You don't drink yourself then?" "That's not

05:04

the issue here Debs okay...". "I don't care, you don't know what the

05:07

issue is in my house either". "Debs we need to get back to the matter in hand

05:11

okay, you're going to need to work with us...". "I thought that was part of the matter in hand".

05:14

"Let me read through the different things we're going to be asking you and Peter...".

05:19

"Fine carry on because you're obviously not listening to me anyway". "So because of the

05:23

domestic concern, domestic instance between yourself and Peter, the first

05:29

item here is- 'Peter not to reside at the home of an evening' so he can come here...".

05:36

"What?" "...during the daytime, but of an evening because that's the time when it

05:40

seems you're drinking at the moment and that's leading to arguments...". "Well that'll be

05:44

because Peter's in work in the day because that's what people normally do

05:47

in the day, and then they come home in the evening." "Okay so often...". "You're saying

05:51

that he can't actually come home?". "Yes, at the moment

05:55

we're expecting that he'll find somewhere else to stay while you're

05:58

working with us". "And you think that's okay?" "It would reduce the incidences of domestic violence...". "So if I

06:03

came to you and said 'oh by the way your husband can't come home to your house

06:06

anymore after work...'". "Debs we're going off-track at the

06:09

moment, you'll need to work with us on this okay. So where can Peter go to stay?

06:13

He'll need to find somewhere else..." "Here, is this house".

06:16

"No he'll need to find somewhere else, other than here...". "Why? Where's he

06:20

supposed to go the YMCA? Or sleep in a box in the street is he?" "What about friends, family,

06:24

where do his parents...". "Tent in the garden maybe?" "Where are his parents? Do they live locally?" "No they

06:29

don't. One of them is dead anyway, you should

06:32

know that". "Okay the information we've got on the system is that there's a Vaughn who

06:37

lives locally? Nain Ceri and taid Vaughn?" "Yeah that's my

06:42

mum and dad". "Yeah? Can he go and stay with them?" "Well no". "Okay you'll need to sort

06:49

that as a family, you'll need to identify somewhere as a family that he can go...".

06:52

"Why? He's not bad dad...". "Debs let me run through the whole contract of

06:56

expectations, what we're expecting you to do okay, cause you are going to need to

07:00

comply with this, if not...". "Says who?" "Well if not, I'll need to discuss the matter with my

07:06

manager to consider taking the matter to Child Protection

07:09

and case conference okay". "So you are going to take my kids away from me". "Let me finish

07:13

running through the contract of expectations okay. So the second incident

07:17

is- 'Peter and Debs not to go drinking of an evening'...". "You can't tell us that we can't go

07:24

drinking, or we can't have a drink...". "If the alcohol use is leading to yourself

07:29

and Peter arguing, and the kids not being supervised appropriately...". "But everybody argues...".

07:33

"Let me just finish. So one of the other things that we'd like you to do is for

07:38

yourself and Peter to go on a budgeting course, and for you to go attending

07:44

one of the local parenting courses that we'll provide for you okay". "Why should I go on a parenting

07:50

course? I look after my kids, they've got a roof over their head, they get fed,

07:54

they're loved. What else is there to parenting?" "One of the other...let me just finish

08:00

going through the contract expectations. One of the other things that you'll have

08:04

to do is to make sure that Megan doesn't go to John's house, and that

08:10

Llyr isn't on the estate unsupervised". "So she can't have a dad, she can't go to

08:16

her uncle's house, what else? Is she allowed to go to school?" "I've explained to you...". "Am I

08:22

allowed to give her a kiss?" "I've explained to you what we expect from you, and what

08:26

we're going to do is we're going to monitor this to make sure that the kids are safe

08:30

and to make sure that you're complying with this". "And how are you going to monitor it?

08:34

You're going to have the police outside the door every night, are you, making sure that Peter doesn't

08:36

come in?" "No what we'll do is, we have an emergency duty team, out-of-hours team,

08:41

we'll ask them to call round some evenings and weekends to go checking to make sure

08:46

that you are complying." "I can't believe this".

08:48

"Okay. I'll leave you a copy of this. Can I ask you to sign at the bottom there?"

08:55

"No. I'm not signing it". "Well regardless of whether you sign it, this is what we're going to

09:00

be expecting of you, and we're going to be monitoring your compliance with this

09:04

okay". "You can't make me sign it and I want you to get out of my house".

09:07

"Okay, Debs let me just explain to you how we're going to be monitoring it, so we're

09:11

going to be asking...I'll be coming here...". "You've got all your facts wrong,

09:15

so go away, get your facts right, and then come back and tell me. Get out of my house". "I'm

09:21

going to be coming here to monitor you complying with this...". "Well I won't open the

09:25

door to you next time". "I'm also going to ask that the out-of-hours social services

09:30

team and the emergency duty team come here of an evening, of a weekend to see

09:35

whether or not Peter is here...". "So basically all you're gonna do is be

09:38

policing us then, no help or anything, just policing? Is that what you're saying?" "We need

09:44

to make sure that you're keeping the kids safe". "I am keeping my kids safe".

09:47

"Okay I'm going to take this back to the office, I'm going to discuss the

09:53

situation with my manager. I will leave a copy with you, okay, but we will be

09:57

expecting you to comply with this". "Whatever".

The second video shows the worker using an outcomes-focused approach, building trust and helping mum talk about what has happened.

00:21

"Hi are you Deb?" "Yeah". "Hi Deb I'm Dawn, we spoke on the phone earlier. Is it okay

00:27

for me to come in?" "Yeah come in". "I'll come in then I'll show you my ID

00:31

inside so you know who I am". "Come through". "So Debs, like I explained to you on the phone,

00:42

we've had a report from the police about an incident the other evening,

00:48

so do you want to tell me a little bit about it?"

00:55

"Yeah we had a bit of a, kind of an upset in the house. Peter and I had a bit of an

01:02

argument. And then when I went to call the kids for tea, they'd gone out

01:07

without asking which is really unusual, and so I shouted outside for them and

01:17

went down to where, you know, down to the park to see if they were there.

01:21

I could see Llyr was, you know, kind of hanging around with a couple of boys that I don't

01:27

like him hanging around with to be honest with you, but you know, that's another

01:29

thing. And I asked him where Megan was and he said he didn't know, so

01:34

then I panicked and I, you know, just ran around looking for her. And well I

01:40

couldn't find her, so I phoned the police because it, you know, was starting to get

01:44

a little bit dark now. Then they came out and she was in John's, so

01:49

you know, then it wasn't so bad after all. But yeah, that was it really".

01:54

"Okay and when she was found in John's, how often does she go to John's

02:02

house?" "Hardly ever, to be honest with you. I

02:05

think, I mean I was really angry with her because she'd gone out without

02:10

asking because she's only eight and, you know, she knows that she doesn't go

02:14

out without asking. So when I asked her why she'd gone there she said 'I just, you

02:20

know, didn't like you and Daddy shouting' so I thought 'well that's fair enough' at

02:26

least she was somewhere safe and she wasn't walking around the streets, you

02:29

know". "So the argument that led to the kids leaving the house and then not

02:35

telling you where they were going, which must have been quite concerning for you,

02:38

what was the argument about?" "It's nothing to do with the kids, it's just, well it's

02:43

about money, you know it's that we've never got any money at

02:46

the minute. So it tends to be the one thing that tends to cause arguments for

02:50

most people, doesn't it so, you know. We've really struggled at the minute so, but

02:56

there we go. What can you do?" "Well I suppose that's the question isn't it, what could

03:02

be done? What do you think might be helpful to yourself and Peter? If the

03:07

arguments are around the financial concerns, about money, what

03:12

do you think's affecting the lack of money, what's your main

03:17

concern around that area?" "Well there's loads of things really, it's kind of, you

03:24

know, it's quite private it's not really something that I want to be talking about

03:28

or for you to go writing reports about or all the rest of it because,

03:32

you know. If you don't know the ins and outs of somebody's personal situation

03:37

you can end up kind of making mountains out of molehills, you know, so...".

03:42

"I appreciate it's very difficult for you - me coming here today, we haven't met

03:46

before, we've only spoken once on the phone, and expect you to tell me

03:50

everything that's going on in the household so..." "Exactly,

03:55

when I said to Peter that you were coming, he said 'Oh they're going to

03:58

take our kids away from us then are they?' because, you know, because you have

04:02

one incident of not being able to find

04:05

Megan". "So my role here really is to try to explore with you what you

04:12

think is going on, what you think would be helpful to you as a family, and what kind

04:18

of strengths you might already have within your own internal resources as a

04:23

as a family or what we might be able to assist you with. So I appreciate it might be

04:29

difficult to have these conversations with somebody you don't know, that's why

04:32

I just want to be curious and get your perspective on what you think is working,

04:36

what isn't, and why that is". "To be honest with you,

04:42

what I really want to know is why social services feel the need to be here,

04:49

when, you know, nothing's really wrong at this particular point in

05:00

time. I can understand how you would be concerned about Megan disappearing the

05:06

other night, but that's all sorted and, you know, she's been told off

05:11

and grounded and it's not going to happen again so, to be honest I don't

05:16

really know why you're here". "So there were a couple of things that you

05:20

mentioned that sounds like you are concerned about, as well as social

05:24

services being concerned about. So the arguments you said had meant that the

05:30

kids have left the house and not told to you where they were going, and that you

05:34

were so worried about that that you went walking around the estate trying

05:37

to find them. So if you don't know where the kids are then obviously that's a

05:41

concern to social services, especially if they're going to somebody who

05:45

might not be able to keep them safe, and it does sound like that's something that

05:50

concerns you as well. So Debs tell me a little bit about

05:54

what the argument was about between yourself and Peter". "Oh just

06:00

something over money, the usual thing really. It wasn't, you know, about the kids

06:06

or aimed at the kids or anything, it's just, you know, our voices were raised

06:10

and when you're not agreeing on something it's loud I suppose". "What's led

06:18

to the money issue? Is that an

06:22

ongoing issue between yourself and Peter?" "Well at the moment it is because I'm not

06:29

working now, you see, I've had to give up my job because of anxiety and

06:34

stuff and obviously there's a little bit less money coming in. So you know, it's

06:41

just those kind of things where, I don't know, he wants to do something, we haven't

06:45

really got the money to do that and then he's, you know, he just gets annoyed because

06:49

he can't do it. And I'm trying to say 'well you know, we can't do everything'

06:54

because we want to go on holiday and stuff as well, so you know, you just can't

06:58

do it all when you're on a low income". "Sounds like it's very difficult for both

07:03

of you, and he's wanting to do something, you're feeling under pressure needing to

07:08

keep to your budget if I'm hearing you right?" "Yeah well I'm the one who tends to

07:13

manage the money, so when he kind of, I don't know, just typical man really - buries

07:19

his head in the sand and then expects me to produce something for him

07:24

to use, you know, so yeah". "You mentioned the holiday there, tell me about

07:30

that and what your hopes are". "I just want to go on a little break really. We

07:34

started to, we paid a deposit so we're saving up the money and we've

07:40

paid a couple of installments sort of thing,

07:44

I've been saving for that, but I keep having to take money out of it you know

07:47

for things like food. So it's, I don't know, I'm just a bit fed up

07:55

to be honest". "It sounds like that's quite frustrating for you, when you're

07:59

trying your best to save and then having to pull money out to have to pay for

08:04

basics within the house. Especially that's something that you're saving for

08:10

that's quite important - it sounds like what you're saying is family time, the

08:15

holiday, is quite important...". "Yeah it is

08:20

because we don't get to do anything, we don't get to go anywhere together

08:23

and what have you, and you know. At the minute Peter's working at the factory

08:29

up the road and I mean he likes his job, so I suppose he kind

08:38

of spends less time with the kids. So it's nice for us all to get away and

08:41

away from it all, isn't it. You'd think something simple like

08:46

that would be easy, but you know, it isn't these days. And I know

08:51

loads of people go through it, but you know, this is our life we're

08:55

living". "Sounds like what you're saying is the financial difficulties and

09:00

strains you're under at the moment because you're not working, and Peter's

09:04

having to do some extra shifts, are placing a strain on your relationships, is that

09:08

right?" "Yeah but, that's normal isn't it you know, it's not like it's out of

09:13

the ordinary we're just a normal family". "I mean those strains between yourself and

09:20

Peter as the result of financial difficulties are then affecting your family

09:24

time together?" "Well it is but I mean mostly at the minute Llyr is kicking off

09:30

all the time, I mean he's proper hit puberty, that teenage place and

09:36

if he can be awkward he'll be awkward, you know". "So that sounds difficult for you".

09:43

"He hates, so yeah. It's just I don't know, I think that's why my

09:48

anxiety levels are up and stuff". "Are there any times when Llyr is different,

09:54

either time or with a different person, so is he..." "Yeah when he's in school". "So

10:01

tell me about when he's in school, how are things different when he's there?"

10:04

"Well I suppose he's just doing other stuff, I don't know I'm not there

10:09

am I so you know, he hasn't got his mum to kick off at and hate". "So do you feel he's

10:14

taking lots of his frustrations out on you as is mum?"

10:17

"I suppose so yeah, he's just a little, well the devil himself at the minute".

10:25

"What about other people in the family, such as Peter or your

10:31

mum and dad? Is it nain Ceri and taid Vaughn is what the kids call them?

10:36

How are Llyr's relationships with them?" "It's fine, I mean he doesn't really see

10:41

them an awful lot, he wants to be out with his mates at the minute he's at that

10:44

age, you know. Like if you tell him he's got to

10:49

stay in - then that's a massive kick off, you know, as if you're kind

10:53

of caging a tiger or something. So sometimes it's just easier to just let

10:59

him go out and let off steam, you know, rather than him putting holes through the door

11:05

or whatever, so yeah. He's just a nightmare at the minute". "And during the

11:12

times when there's disagreements between yourself and Peter

11:19

in the house, and Llyr's gone out, where's Megan during those times?" "Usually

11:25

in her room". "Yeah and when she's not in the room, when she leaves the house as well..."

11:31

"Well she's only done that once so". "Okay". "She won't be

11:37

doing that again". "What would prevent her from doing that

11:41

next time? What might you be able to do to stop her next time?"

11:47

"Well she's been grounded so she won't be doing that again. She had a proper

11:53

telling-off so, you know. She's a good girl, she is a good girl. And

12:02

they're both doing well in school, so you know, there's no massive

12:06

problems, it's just that Llyr is just a nightmare". "It's great that during

12:12

the times of difficulties at the moment between yourself and Peter and your

12:17

relationship with Llyr and maybe Llyr's relationship with other people, that

12:21

you're still able to hold onto those positives. Because lots of people, they're either

12:25

black or white in their thinking - it's either 'Llyr's really awful' or 'no he's

12:29

really great'. But the fact that you can hold on to these times of 'actually

12:32

he's doing well in school' or he's..." "It's still I mean you know, when we're not

12:39

arguing about money, we're arguing about him. So we would still at the moment

12:46

prefer that he was actually taken into care cos I think he'd be better off. I

12:51

know I would be, because I just can't take much more of it to be honest

12:56

with you. So if that's what you are here to do then crack on". "Let's explore what you

13:02

think would be better or different for Llyr if he were to go into care, what

13:06

do you think would be better for him? You said that he'd be better off in care".

13:09

"Well he wouldn't be around me, because he seems to hate me - anything I say or

13:13

anything I do is, you know, it's not good enough. It's the smallest

13:18

thing that makes him kick-off and I mean it'll be something simple like 'can you bring

13:22

your school uniform down?' and then he'll just kick off because he's got to do

13:25

that. Like I said, Peter, because

13:30

he's doing shifts and all the rest of it he's not here, so there's no man around

13:33

to kind of speak to him. I don't know, I just think he'd be better off". "So

13:41

you feel like you're having to manage all those relationship challenges with

13:45

Llyr on your own then?" "Yeah he's just getting more verbally aggressive,

13:51

he can be quite violent when he's kicking off, and

13:56

I can do without it. And why should Megan go through that?" "Are there times when

14:01

things are different? When Llyr isn't showing those behaviours?" "What when he's

14:07

at home?" "Yeah". "When he's getting his own way. And you can't just give your kids

14:11

their own way just..." "No, no of course. Tell me about a time when

14:16

things have been different between your relationship and Llyr". "I think before he

14:21

hit puberty". "Yeah, what were things like then?" "He just did as he was told

14:26

pretty much then. They reckon it's just like testosterone gone

14:35

mad don't they but you know, not everybody's kids do that. And I just,

14:42

sometimes I think there's something wrong with him". "So it sounds

14:46

like what you're saying is not so much that you want him to go into care, but

14:50

what you want to stop is the arguments between yourself and him, and for him to

14:58

not be losing his temper around Megan, and not to be damaging the property in the

15:02

house..." "But I can't do that. I've done everything I can to try to stop him

15:07

doing that and I can't do it. You're not here when it happens, I can't do it anymore. I just want him out,

15:19

and I know that sounds awful as a mother but it's awful when you put up with it all the time I can't stand it". "I can see how

15:32

upset you are thinking about that. Take your time it's okay, it's okay. What we can do Debs is,

15:45

I've got something here which is called a safety plan. And it just means that we

15:53

sit down together and I think about what's happening when things are not going

16:00

great in the house, what's happening when things are going great in the house, and

16:04

how we can increase the good things rather than the difficult things".

How do personal outcomes link to the National Outcomes Framework?

The Welsh Government has a clear commitment to improving the well-being of people in Wales and places it as a central principle in all its policies.

The National Outcomes Framework is for:

any individual who needs care and support
carers, friends and family who need support
any services undertaking social services functions under the Act, such as local authorities, social enterprises, co-operatives, user led services, the third sector and the independent sector.

The Framework describes well-being and gives a consistent way to measure it. People will want to achieve outcomes that are personal to them in their own circumstances. However authorities will need to report these outcomes against national indicators, which are explained in the National Outcomes Framework.

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