00:21
"Hi are you Deb?" "Yeah". "Hi Deb I'm Dawn, we spoke on the phone earlier. Is it okay
00:27
for me to come in?" "Yeah come in". "I'll come in then I'll show you my ID
00:31
inside so you know who I am". "Come through". "So Debs, like I explained to you on the phone,
00:42
we've had a report from the police about an incident the other evening,
00:48
so do you want to tell me a little bit about it?"
00:55
"Yeah we had a bit of a, kind of an upset in the house. Peter and I had a bit of an
01:02
argument. And then when I went to call the kids for tea, they'd gone out
01:07
without asking which is really unusual, and so I shouted outside for them and
01:17
went down to where, you know, down to the park to see if they were there.
01:21
I could see Llyr was, you know, kind of hanging around with a couple of boys that I don't
01:27
like him hanging around with to be honest with you, but you know, that's another
01:29
thing. And I asked him where Megan was and he said he didn't know, so
01:34
then I panicked and I, you know, just ran around looking for her. And well I
01:40
couldn't find her, so I phoned the police because it, you know, was starting to get
01:44
a little bit dark now. Then they came out and she was in John's, so
01:49
you know, then it wasn't so bad after all. But yeah, that was it really".
01:54
"Okay and when she was found in John's, how often does she go to John's
02:02
house?" "Hardly ever, to be honest with you. I
02:05
think, I mean I was really angry with her because she'd gone out without
02:10
asking because she's only eight and, you know, she knows that she doesn't go
02:14
out without asking. So when I asked her why she'd gone there she said 'I just, you
02:20
know, didn't like you and Daddy shouting' so I thought 'well that's fair enough' at
02:26
least she was somewhere safe and she wasn't walking around the streets, you
02:29
know". "So the argument that led to the kids leaving the house and then not
02:35
telling you where they were going, which must have been quite concerning for you,
02:38
what was the argument about?" "It's nothing to do with the kids, it's just, well it's
02:43
about money, you know it's that we've never got any money at
02:46
the minute. So it tends to be the one thing that tends to cause arguments for
02:50
most people, doesn't it so, you know. We've really struggled at the minute so, but
02:56
there we go. What can you do?" "Well I suppose that's the question isn't it, what could
03:02
be done? What do you think might be helpful to yourself and Peter? If the
03:07
arguments are around the financial concerns, about money, what
03:12
do you think's affecting the lack of money, what's your main
03:17
concern around that area?" "Well there's loads of things really, it's kind of, you
03:24
know, it's quite private it's not really something that I want to be talking about
03:28
or for you to go writing reports about or all the rest of it because,
03:32
you know. If you don't know the ins and outs of somebody's personal situation
03:37
you can end up kind of making mountains out of molehills, you know, so...".
03:42
"I appreciate it's very difficult for you - me coming here today, we haven't met
03:46
before, we've only spoken once on the phone, and expect you to tell me
03:50
everything that's going on in the household so..." "Exactly,
03:55
when I said to Peter that you were coming, he said 'Oh they're going to
03:58
take our kids away from us then are they?' because, you know, because you have
04:02
one incident of not being able to find
04:05
Megan". "So my role here really is to try to explore with you what you
04:12
think is going on, what you think would be helpful to you as a family, and what kind
04:18
of strengths you might already have within your own internal resources as a
04:23
as a family or what we might be able to assist you with. So I appreciate it might be
04:29
difficult to have these conversations with somebody you don't know, that's why
04:32
I just want to be curious and get your perspective on what you think is working,
04:36
what isn't, and why that is". "To be honest with you,
04:42
what I really want to know is why social services feel the need to be here,
04:49
when, you know, nothing's really wrong at this particular point in
05:00
time. I can understand how you would be concerned about Megan disappearing the
05:06
other night, but that's all sorted and, you know, she's been told off
05:11
and grounded and it's not going to happen again so, to be honest I don't
05:16
really know why you're here". "So there were a couple of things that you
05:20
mentioned that sounds like you are concerned about, as well as social
05:24
services being concerned about. So the arguments you said had meant that the
05:30
kids have left the house and not told to you where they were going, and that you
05:34
were so worried about that that you went walking around the estate trying
05:37
to find them. So if you don't know where the kids are then obviously that's a
05:41
concern to social services, especially if they're going to somebody who
05:45
might not be able to keep them safe, and it does sound like that's something that
05:50
concerns you as well. So Debs tell me a little bit about
05:54
what the argument was about between yourself and Peter". "Oh just
06:00
something over money, the usual thing really. It wasn't, you know, about the kids
06:06
or aimed at the kids or anything, it's just, you know, our voices were raised
06:10
and when you're not agreeing on something it's loud I suppose". "What's led
06:18
to the money issue? Is that an
06:22
ongoing issue between yourself and Peter?" "Well at the moment it is because I'm not
06:29
working now, you see, I've had to give up my job because of anxiety and
06:34
stuff and obviously there's a little bit less money coming in. So you know, it's
06:41
just those kind of things where, I don't know, he wants to do something, we haven't
06:45
really got the money to do that and then he's, you know, he just gets annoyed because
06:49
he can't do it. And I'm trying to say 'well you know, we can't do everything'
06:54
because we want to go on holiday and stuff as well, so you know, you just can't
06:58
do it all when you're on a low income". "Sounds like it's very difficult for both
07:03
of you, and he's wanting to do something, you're feeling under pressure needing to
07:08
keep to your budget if I'm hearing you right?" "Yeah well I'm the one who tends to
07:13
manage the money, so when he kind of, I don't know, just typical man really - buries
07:19
his head in the sand and then expects me to produce something for him
07:24
to use, you know, so yeah". "You mentioned the holiday there, tell me about
07:30
that and what your hopes are". "I just want to go on a little break really. We
07:34
started to, we paid a deposit so we're saving up the money and we've
07:40
paid a couple of installments sort of thing,
07:44
I've been saving for that, but I keep having to take money out of it you know
07:47
for things like food. So it's, I don't know, I'm just a bit fed up
07:55
to be honest". "It sounds like that's quite frustrating for you, when you're
07:59
trying your best to save and then having to pull money out to have to pay for
08:04
basics within the house. Especially that's something that you're saving for
08:10
that's quite important - it sounds like what you're saying is family time, the
08:15
holiday, is quite important...". "Yeah it is
08:20
because we don't get to do anything, we don't get to go anywhere together
08:23
and what have you, and you know. At the minute Peter's working at the factory
08:29
up the road and I mean he likes his job, so I suppose he kind
08:38
of spends less time with the kids. So it's nice for us all to get away and
08:41
away from it all, isn't it. You'd think something simple like
08:46
that would be easy, but you know, it isn't these days. And I know
08:51
loads of people go through it, but you know, this is our life we're
08:55
living". "Sounds like what you're saying is the financial difficulties and
09:00
strains you're under at the moment because you're not working, and Peter's
09:04
having to do some extra shifts, are placing a strain on your relationships, is that
09:08
right?" "Yeah but, that's normal isn't it you know, it's not like it's out of
09:13
the ordinary we're just a normal family". "I mean those strains between yourself and
09:20
Peter as the result of financial difficulties are then affecting your family
09:24
time together?" "Well it is but I mean mostly at the minute Llyr is kicking off
09:30
all the time, I mean he's proper hit puberty, that teenage place and
09:36
if he can be awkward he'll be awkward, you know". "So that sounds difficult for you".
09:43
"He hates, so yeah. It's just I don't know, I think that's why my
09:48
anxiety levels are up and stuff". "Are there any times when Llyr is different,
09:54
either time or with a different person, so is he..." "Yeah when he's in school". "So
10:01
tell me about when he's in school, how are things different when he's there?"
10:04
"Well I suppose he's just doing other stuff, I don't know I'm not there
10:09
am I so you know, he hasn't got his mum to kick off at and hate". "So do you feel he's
10:14
taking lots of his frustrations out on you as is mum?"
10:17
"I suppose so yeah, he's just a little, well the devil himself at the minute".
10:25
"What about other people in the family, such as Peter or your
10:31
mum and dad? Is it nain Ceri and taid Vaughn is what the kids call them?
10:36
How are Llyr's relationships with them?" "It's fine, I mean he doesn't really see
10:41
them an awful lot, he wants to be out with his mates at the minute he's at that
10:44
age, you know. Like if you tell him he's got to
10:49
stay in - then that's a massive kick off, you know, as if you're kind
10:53
of caging a tiger or something. So sometimes it's just easier to just let
10:59
him go out and let off steam, you know, rather than him putting holes through the door
11:05
or whatever, so yeah. He's just a nightmare at the minute". "And during the
11:12
times when there's disagreements between yourself and Peter
11:19
in the house, and Llyr's gone out, where's Megan during those times?" "Usually
11:25
in her room". "Yeah and when she's not in the room, when she leaves the house as well..."
11:31
"Well she's only done that once so". "Okay". "She won't be
11:37
doing that again". "What would prevent her from doing that
11:41
next time? What might you be able to do to stop her next time?"
11:47
"Well she's been grounded so she won't be doing that again. She had a proper
11:53
telling-off so, you know. She's a good girl, she is a good girl. And
12:02
they're both doing well in school, so you know, there's no massive
12:06
problems, it's just that Llyr is just a nightmare". "It's great that during
12:12
the times of difficulties at the moment between yourself and Peter and your
12:17
relationship with Llyr and maybe Llyr's relationship with other people, that
12:21
you're still able to hold onto those positives. Because lots of people, they're either
12:25
black or white in their thinking - it's either 'Llyr's really awful' or 'no he's
12:29
really great'. But the fact that you can hold on to these times of 'actually
12:32
he's doing well in school' or he's..." "It's still I mean you know, when we're not
12:39
arguing about money, we're arguing about him. So we would still at the moment
12:46
prefer that he was actually taken into care cos I think he'd be better off. I
12:51
know I would be, because I just can't take much more of it to be honest
12:56
with you. So if that's what you are here to do then crack on". "Let's explore what you
13:02
think would be better or different for Llyr if he were to go into care, what
13:06
do you think would be better for him? You said that he'd be better off in care".
13:09
"Well he wouldn't be around me, because he seems to hate me - anything I say or
13:13
anything I do is, you know, it's not good enough. It's the smallest
13:18
thing that makes him kick-off and I mean it'll be something simple like 'can you bring
13:22
your school uniform down?' and then he'll just kick off because he's got to do
13:25
that. Like I said, Peter, because
13:30
he's doing shifts and all the rest of it he's not here, so there's no man around
13:33
to kind of speak to him. I don't know, I just think he'd be better off". "So
13:41
you feel like you're having to manage all those relationship challenges with
13:45
Llyr on your own then?" "Yeah he's just getting more verbally aggressive,
13:51
he can be quite violent when he's kicking off, and
13:56
I can do without it. And why should Megan go through that?" "Are there times when
14:01
things are different? When Llyr isn't showing those behaviours?" "What when he's
14:07
at home?" "Yeah". "When he's getting his own way. And you can't just give your kids
14:11
their own way just..." "No, no of course. Tell me about a time when
14:16
things have been different between your relationship and Llyr". "I think before he
14:21
hit puberty". "Yeah, what were things like then?" "He just did as he was told
14:26
pretty much then. They reckon it's just like testosterone gone
14:35
mad don't they but you know, not everybody's kids do that. And I just,
14:42
sometimes I think there's something wrong with him". "So it sounds
14:46
like what you're saying is not so much that you want him to go into care, but
14:50
what you want to stop is the arguments between yourself and him, and for him to
14:58
not be losing his temper around Megan, and not to be damaging the property in the
15:02
house..." "But I can't do that. I've done everything I can to try to stop him
15:07
doing that and I can't do it. You're not here when it happens, I can't do it anymore. I just want him out,
15:19
and I know that sounds awful as a mother but it's awful when you put up with it all the time I can't stand it". "I can see how
15:32
upset you are thinking about that. Take your time it's okay, it's okay. What we can do Debs is,
15:45
I've got something here which is called a safety plan. And it just means that we
15:53
sit down together and I think about what's happening when things are not going
16:00
great in the house, what's happening when things are going great in the house, and
16:04
how we can increase the good things rather than the difficult things".